Trust Not The System.
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Also known as "Questtrek".
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I make art and occasionally games.
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🩷💜💙
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I always try to give the best feedback possible.
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I am open to playtesting if you want another opinion.
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Death to AI!
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Feel free to PM me about anyting.
California
Joined on 4/8/21
- Level:
- 17
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- 5.88 votes
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- Portal Security
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Comments
Graphic is gorgeous
Summary is succinct
I concur with your points about the paywall, and that a manual approval form would be a nice addition -- making the supporter feature a more or less convenience fee for upload powers
Still got to check out your guide when I get time. @TomFulp, you may be interested in these stats!
Fantastic graphic and superb blog! I thank Yatsufusa if I discovered it thanks to the message users can put at the end of the site main page. I also linked it to the 2024 Year-End Recap thread made by Tom Fulp so everyone can see it and read it.
Thank you for the service! Gradually I am starting to learn how to distinguish Suno tracks and study their characteristics in order to flag them. I recently flagged 5 AI-generated images and had them taken down (my numbers ofc pales compared to yours but I am happy to have contributed even a little to make this place a better place). I hope to master my listening skills to do the same with audio.
@Quest
"Not to get too political", but educating the people will only work if the people are willing to be educated / educate themselves. At this point you are advocating for a better, smarter, more informed humanity. I'm all for it! But from personal experience and the latest results of recent elections all over the world it just sounds a tad too optimistic. (To make the subtext text: Yes, I am saying "People are dumb!")
I also see Art Portal submissions (plural) get frontpaged that feature narcotics and are age rated as "E". At some point, either a Moderator or Mister Fulp looked at those images and said "Heyyy! Finally something for today's frontpage!" and left it at that.
Please do not get me wrong: I _celebrate_ every single instance where I read a new post from you explaining how to identify these things* or that reminds our users "This is a problem by the way. One that we are having _RIGHT_NOW_!" and having an actual statistic that puts subjective terms such as "way too many" or "I find about 30-ish a week - others might find even more/different tracks" into harder numbers is extremely helpful when discussing a topic that the userbase has no hard data for.
As I said: I am not a fan of a "paywall" to attempt and solve this particular problem either. In my eyes, this is currently an issue of 'volume'. I absolutely agree that Audio/Art Portal "artists" who get on the front page with AI generated work should get the ban hammer so hard that it gets stuck. But that is a small number of cases. When I look at the most recent PM I got from a moderator I see clear indicators of burnout. Burnout inflicted on them from a voluntary position they accepted "for the common good". Either we need to double the number of (currently 'active') moderators or we need to reduce the influx of crap. Reducing the influx of crap will _also_ reduce the workload of users who still write reports on these things. I'd say 13% of my time spend on NG is usually spend by writing reports. 'This is not fun for me _either_'... :/
And I'm sure 'you' would rather spend your time doing other things as well. (I'm looking forward to your upcoming project, btw. To the people who find this conversation engaging/interesting/important: Consider following Quest.)
* But how does a "crusty" sound sound?
Yatsufusa
First and foremost *loudly slaps their hand on the blackboard to make sure everyone is awake*:
_Thank_you,_Quest!_
You put in a _tremendous_ amount of time and effort for the common good! Your work not only "keeps the Portal clean", it gives actual music 'by actual artists' a better chance of "being discovered" in the Audio Portal - rather than have it being drowned out by AI mishmash that was artificially generated.
I hope @TomFulp will draw some consequences and permanently disable the use of music from Newgrounds in Geo-- Erm, I meeean: I hope @TomFulp will look into the root-cause behind the vast majority of these submissions and decide on appropriate measures.
I share the general "Do we really have to?"-sentiment when it comes to the "paywalled" solution that was recently foreshadowed*, but seeing these numbers I think: "Maybe we do..." I feel sorry for the young artists who genuinely cannot afford to spend 3 dollars. But the (unpaid) labor the volunteers (users like yourself and @G2961 as well as the moderators) have to put in to combat this issue has gotten out of hand long ago.
* https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1540483
Quest (Updated )
I do not like the idea of making users pay for uploading audio, even if these numbers from myself are a bit shocking. Just slapping a paywall on it won't fix the root problem. One of the last big AI users I reported was scouted and frontpaged. The frontpaged track was made by Suno AI, and had been listened to by over 1000 people with no one recognizing or reporting it. Just a cherry on top, it was used for a featured Geometry Dash level too (which was why it was generated in the first place). Putting a paywall on audio uploads is not going to make people wiser, just AI users more cunning. People need to be directly educated about AI if we want to make a difference. I also made the point that over two thirds of the AI songs I reported had that oh-so-telling 192kbps bitrate. There are patterns in AI tracks which can can be used to detect them. AI detection software would be really nice, but I understand how letting these tracks rot in the unscouted section is FAR cheaper than specialized software.
I said it before, and I'll say it again; Education is the way forward. The fact that AI tracks have made it to the frontpage multiple times shows how dire eductaion is needed, for moderators, admins, supporters, and general users alike. AI tracks are less likely to make it to the frontpage, and users will know what to hear for and be more likely to report it. A paywall would block most of the symptoms, but not really cure anything. I'm sorry if this sounds naïve or overly faithful in people's ability or desire to learn, but I really think educating everyone would be extremely helpful in combatting AI in the Audio Portal.
Edit: Leavesz made some good points, and brought up the idea of an approval form which I had also suggested on a previous post or comment somewhere (couldn't find it specifically).
https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1540483#bbspost27985159_post_text
If a paywall is instituted, I feel like an apoval form system should be put in place for all the users who cannot or do not have the means to pay. I would personally sift through approval forms if it meant keeping the Audio Portal open for everyone.